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1. dave stranding (dthompson@toot.cat)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2019 23:25:42 UTC dave stranding

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   trying to get along with Brandon Invergo but his latest post on gnu-misc-discuss makes me want to say "fuuuuuuuuuuuuck you"

   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-misc-discuss/2019-11/msg00341.html

   • Paul Lammers (mplammers@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2019 23:25:40 UTC Paul Lammers

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     @dthompson Why is his removal needed?

   • dave stranding (dthompson@toot.cat)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2019 23:25:40 UTC dave stranding

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     • Paul Lammers

     @mplammers a consistent pattern of behavior over many years that has made certain groups of feel unwelcome in the free software community, women in particular.

     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK likes this.
   • dave stranding (dthompson@toot.cat)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2019 23:25:41 UTC dave stranding

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     I think the emerging strategy of just not recognizing rms as gnu's leader and creating new policy and leadership structure is a good move. if rms isn't gonna budge, go around him.

   • Paul Lammers (mplammers@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2019 23:29:25 UTC Paul Lammers

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     @dthompson > feel unwelcome ... women in particular

     But that's not enough is it?He criticises governments, industries and religions. He is attacking the trillion dollar surveillance industry.

     That's why we need more than rumors. Where can I read about the facts? Are there actual accusations against him?

     Last time I read accusations, they later turned out to be about a completely different person. That's the kind of tactics that make me suspicious.

   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2019 23:29:25 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK

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     • Paul Lammers
     @mplammers @dthompson If anything, those actors benefit from GNU remaining a boys' club.
   • Paul Lammers (mplammers@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2019 10:15:17 UTC Paul Lammers

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     • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK

     @clacke @dthompson If anything, they benefit from his removal, regardless his gender.

   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2019 10:15:17 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK

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     • Paul Lammers
     @mplammers @dthompson Let me rephrase myself: They benefit from GNU being limited in its growth.We know from people's statements that they have chosen not to contribute because they didn't feel comfortable with the environment.
   • Paul Lammers (mplammers@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2019 13:32:23 UTC Paul Lammers

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     • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK

     @clacke @dthompson Where can I read the statements?

   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2019 13:32:23 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK

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     • Paul Lammers
     @mplammers @dthompson Here's one.nitter.net/sarahmei/status/994…I don't keep a file. There's the women at CSAIL that had strategies for avoiding him.
   • Paul Lammers (mplammers@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2019 14:39:34 UTC Paul Lammers

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     • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK

     @clacke @dthompson > Here's oneI've read the whole thing and there is very little there.

   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2019 14:39:34 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK

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     • Paul Lammers
     @mplammers @dthompson There is a person saying they rejected free software for open source because of the attitudes they saw there, that's all. There is no smoking gun, only a long term pattern of driving people away.But I don't see any point in continuing this back and forth. You see the signs of evil corporate subversion, I see genuine members a community wanting that community to grow up. We're not going to see the same thing.
   • dave stranding (dthompson@toot.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2019 14:46:04 UTC dave stranding

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     • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK
     • Paul Lammers

     @mplammers @clacke not our job to do homework for you. RMS has done lots of shitty things over years and has absolutely driven people away, both people that never contributed because of it and people that got sick of it.

     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK likes this.
   • Paul Lammers (mplammers@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2019 14:53:09 UTC Paul Lammers

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     • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK

     @clacke @dthompson > You see the signs of evil corporate subversion

     Don't put words in my mouth.

   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2019 14:53:09 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) SE HK

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     • Paul Lammers
     @mplammers @dthompson Ok, your position is slightly more subtle. You are suspicious of what's going on, and you are insinuating that there is a connection to powerful interests that want him gone.Maybe you don't think they're evil, so I admit I drew a bit of a broad stroke while putting your position in plain terms.Anyway, I'm out.