Strypey
@witchescauldron
> this aproch was tried by champagne IMC
That's not possible. You can't enact a network-scale tactic in a single local collective. You may be remembering the UC IMC tactic of registering for NGO status and accepting grants from US Foundations. Which is a totally different thing from the model described in the posts you're replying to.
Strypey
@witchescauldron you're not comparing apples with apples. One of these is a software dev project. The other is a cluster of independent media projects.
Strypey
@witchescauldron what do you mean 'if it happens'? They have published code under free licenses. It's happening!
Strypey
@witchescauldron
> #openweb apps search plugins for searchx project
Something like this?
https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/about-hash2pub/543
Strypey
@witchescauldron Scripting plugins for #Searx would be something new. If Searx could include #hash2pub relays in their meta-search sources, that would allow Searx instances to search the entire #fediverse, not just Mastodon and PT.
Strypey
@witchescauldron
I still have no idea what you mean by "the geekproblem" and FYI the constant repetition of it really bugs me.
Strypey
@witchescauldron
> searx is a way of adding general web search access to this wider network.
So ... what exactly is it you want to do?
a) add something to #Searx so it searches the fediverse (just hashtags or total keyword search of all posts?)
OR
b) add general web search to fediverse instances
OR
c) both
OR
d) something else
Strypey
@witchescauldron I don't understand what you mean by. ..
> social project turned into code
... or ...
> codeing project turned in a society
Strypey
@witchescauldron
> 95% of #OpenSource projects are obviously pointless.
This is both a made up statistic, and obviously wrong.
Claes Wallin πΈπͺππ°
Strypey
@witchescauldron
> #geekproblem vs #openweb
I still have no idea what you mean by either of these hashtags. It sounds like UK #Indymedia had a difference of opinion between geeks that favour decentalization and aggregation, and geeks that favour centralization and moderation. Why is only one of these the "geek problem"?
Claes Wallin πΈπͺππ°
Admin
@strypey @xj9 its a intresting thing to look at. Actually you can see 3 active sides in the uk #indymedia mess and important to see the outcome that they ALL LOST in the end.
1) #encryptionists (being pushed by the #geekproblem)
2) #fashernistas (being influenced by the #geekoroblem)
3) #openweb being sidelined by the rest
Admin
@clacke @xj9 @strypey the is a page of Jargon here https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/Open-Media-Network/wiki/Jargon or just fallow the hashtags back to pickup a flow #neticate if rearly intrested the is a backstory here http://hamishcampbell.com agen use the hashtags #DIY #KISS
Claes Wallin πΈπͺππ°
Admin
"A large part of this is our fault. And, by us, I mean gatekeeping nerds. We developed tools which were unforgiving. We had no interest in the "soft" skills of empathy. We were too socially-awkward to speak to real users. We were insular and we liked it! Worse than that - we revelled in it."
written in heart signs, faintly
Strypey
@xj9
> i asked to be untagged so please be polite and untag
I agree that request is common courtesy, but just out of curiosity, does your client not have a 'mute conversation' function?
Strypey
@xj9
> i asked to be untagged so please be polite and untag
I agree that respecting your request is common courtesy, but just out of curiosity, does your client not have a 'mute conversation' function?
Strypey
I think this a naive account of the problem, as it applies to network tech in general, and @Indymedia as an example.
Strypey
I think 'gatekeeping nerds' is a naive account of the problem, as it applies to network tech in general, and @Indymedia as an example. It ignores the much more powerful social forces at play and severely overestimates the amount of power geeks had to influence the outcome.
@witchescauldron @clacke
Strypey
The primary reasons #Indymedia died, as a broad-based media network, were IMHO:
a) it depended utterly on coding and sysadmin skills that, even then, were attracting huge salaries
b) the constitutional agreements of the network effectively forbid paying those people
c) it fell into the same orgy of attack politics we've seen on the fediverse, making it socially impossible for all but the most flawlessly PC radical left geeks to stay involved
@Indymedia @witchescauldron @clacke
Strypey
Given those 3 facts, and the massive amount of #VentureCapital flowing into startups, which (in theory) allowed geeks to develop software useful to independent media efforts while getting *well* paid, it was inevitable that @Indymedia would bleed tech support volunteers, and fail to recruit many new ones (if any). This gradually but inevitably shifts decision-making power over whatsoftware gets developed, and how it gets deployed, from activist networks to capitalists.
@witchescauldron @clacke
Strypey
What @Indymedia could have done, once these problems started to manifest, was negotiate some modifications to it's constitutional agreements. Changes allowing worker-owned cooperatives to be full members of the network, as well as #IMC collectives. This would have created a way to fund both tech infrastructure and dev, under activist coordination, while allowing geek activists to work in their own social spaces, and get paid. This is the model I think is worth pursuing.
@witchescauldron @clacke
Strypey
@xj9
> my view of the future of computer: https://xj9.io/posts/2019/programming-for-the-next-billion/
A lot to agree with here. One thing that's missing though. The layer of software users interact with directly, is often *not* built by a software engineer, but by a graphic designer. Most #Javascript, for example. Moving this into user control, wherever possible, and putting the rest in the hands of competent engineers (paid or unpaid), would be a net improvement for all 3 groups.
Strypey
@witchescauldron yes, this is part of what I'm saying.
@Indymedia @clacke
Strypey
@witchescauldron all I'm saying is that the #PlatformCooperative movement is growing sustainably and will continue to do so. A refusal to engage with it is self-marginalizing.
@Indymedia @clacke
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